Barry Avrich and Noam Tibon on The Road Between Us: “The film is not political. It’s a story about a family.”

Few films have generated more controversy in the history of the Toronto International Film Festival, especially before audiences had a chance to see the film, than with Barry Avrich’s The Road Between Us: The Ultimate Rescue. The director has spent decades portraying major artists, creative figures, and complicated individuals, from legendary icons like Oscar Peterson in 2021’s Black + White, producer and pianist David Foster in 2019’s Off the Record, or his portrait of pornographer Bob Guccione in 2013’s Filthy Gorgeous. 

While many of his previous films focus on strong political or social personalities, none has been more assiduously assembled or so clearly focussed as this reflection upon retired Israeli general Noam Tibon and his mission to rescue his family during the October 7th incursion into the southern Israeli kibbutz Nahal Oz. 

All films are inherently political in some sense, of course, but in the general idea of the term, The Road Between Us avoids being either polemical or didactic. Avrich tightly focusses his gaze on the perspective of Tibon, his wife and children, rather than the myriad of larger, important questions concerning what led up to October 7th, what occurred for other family members, or the seemingly inexhaustible horrors that have followed in its wake. Those stories are consciously left to other, broader investigations from different filmmakers. Avrich presents a laser-focussed story of a father with a unique set of skills, one who set upon a mission on that harrowing day to save his son’s family. 

For the cynical or the suspicious viewer, this narrow focus may unfairly erase the context of these events to the point of insularity, obscuring the need to ask harder questions of the subject’s past actions and current views for the sake of a tale of bravery. That feels not only unfair to the film’s clear focus, it would perhaps also be a complicated standard that just about any documentary would be unable to satisfy. 

For the more open minded, Avrich’s focus provides a precise, compelling look at one specific day in the life of this family. It’s a story told unapologetically from their subjective perspective, expressing the truth of the situation as they saw and experienced it, full stop. Yes, the countdown clock-elements give it an almost thriller-like pace. But at its best the timestamps provide a spine to the narrative, helping to tie the myriad of elements, from first person accounts to the hundreds of clips sourced from social media, security cameras, and so on, into one linear tale.  

Meanwhile, others with their own presuppositions about the film’s character and who may be sympathetic to Tibon’s actions may have their own preconceptions undermined, given all the talk of the many state failures that necessitated his actions, as well as the clearly articulated disappointment that this date marks the clearest, most deadly example of political promises being broken.

The controversy surrounding the place of The Road Between Us in the festival line-up will fade in time. The qualities of Avrich’s film are up to audiences to decide. POV spoke with Avrich and Tibon prior to the film’s single screening at this year’s Toronto International Film Festival.

 

POV: Jason Gorber
BA: Barry Avrich
NT: Noam Tibon

The following has been edited for brevity and clarity.

 

POV: How did this story come to you?

BA: This is not my first rodeo making a documentary. But if you look at all of my work, this is not something that you would think that I was going to make. I’m not a political filmmaker, but I go where an interesting story is. At this time in my life, and the maturity of me as a filmmaker, family is so important to me. I kept thinking about Noam’s story before even reaching out to him, I kept thinking about that question of what would I do? You get a text message from your child, what would you do? 

I don’t have his skills. I don’t have any skills per se other than how to make a film. That’s what gravitated to me. I didn’t look at the region, I didn’t look at politics. I wanted to speak to him and have a conversation and get into his head. I found his phone number and called him and said that I’m a documentary filmmaker, and that I’d like to help tell this story, and here’s my angle. 

I expected him to say, “Well, you’re the fifteenth in line!” He said to me, what nobody wants to hear as a filmmaker, “You’ll have to speak to my daughter-in-law. She’s my agent.” Yikes. [Laughs.] Now I’ve got to go through some Hollywood process here! 

I’ve been very lucky in my life to have access to people that I wanted to talk to and convinced them to be in my films. I should say, which is interesting, they were beginning the process of greenlighting a scripted feature about his life. So the question of where the documentary fit in was a little bit more complex. I just kept saying the fictionalization was irrelevant to the story, and that they can live together. 

We then had several conversations about what my angle on the story was. I don’t live in Israel. I can’t begin to understand everything going on there. I just kept saying to Noam that no one can talk about this experience. I strictly cared about his headspace that day. My focus was on those fourteen hours, father to father, that’s the film I want to make. And he said, “Let’s go!”

 

POV: So in the end, it was your decision to move forward working with Barry?

NT: Well, let me tell you something. It was a journey to make this movie!

 

POV: It’s a journey about a journey!

NT: [Laughs.] The fact that Barry is from here, from Toronto, was a benefit. Before he came to Israel, we didn’t know each other. We then had to work very intensively. I think that process worked because Barry was so focused on this specific story, rather than the broader aspects about what’s going on in Israel. I think it was a very professional way of handling the situation. He made me feel very comfortable to be open with my thoughts, open with my fears, open with my decisions. I think it’s a great movie.

 

POV: At its core, the film is a narrow, humanist film rather than one about the larger context. It is a story of a father, a son, a daughter-in-law, and grandchildren. What is it that you came to understand about yourself when you saw the film? Are you seeing yourself as an action hero, like Liam Neeson in Taken? Did you fear it was mythologizing a little?

NT: I was a little bit surprised when I saw the movie. Barry was able to showcase all those images from that day, mainly from Hamas but also from other cameras. That helped me not only see, but also feel, what happened in a different way. The situation was so chaotic. I served in the military for many years. I was in combat. I was involved in battles. I saw bodies. But I never saw so many bodies in my lifetime as I saw on that day. 

The movie brought me back to that day. I hope when people who are watching it, they will not only see it, but they will also feel the chaos of the whole situation. My goal is that after the movie, everybody inside our family, not with friends but between a husband and a wife, parents and kids, will talk about what we would do in such a situation.

 

POV: The film navigates very complicated storylines, but because it’s so specific, any viewer could watch this fun and see himself or herself as you and what they would do from whatever side of the political spectrum.

BA: That was the intention

 

POV: What do we not understand about that day that you think this film provides clarity about?

NT: I think in many ways the movie brings the horror, the terrible scenes, even the smell of that day. Well, you cannot smell it, of course! But when you see so many real pictures, with real footage, all connected to my journey on the day, people will see what happened on October 7th. This is very important in the world today, to remember what really happened on that day.

BA: We knew going in that to just do an archival, talking heads thing, to show that this is what happened on the day, wasn’t going to be enough. All that came together through the incredible visual research of our team, including my editor, Dave Kennedy, and my producer, Mark Selby. We found every possible camera angle from that day as Noam took that journey. When he talks about being somewhere, we found that moment visually, whether that was a camera on a highway, whether it was kibbutz security cameras , or whether it was culled from thousands of hours of Hamas bodycam footage. 

My father always used to say to me, “Watch the audience, not the film.” When I flew to Israel to show him Noam a first cut of the film, I watched him during the screening, watching him get jarred by a certain thing. There was almost a spasm every time he’d see certain scenes. We found the footage that captures what he saw at that moment. That to me is what makes the film work. There’s no footage in there that was for the purposes of making a point about the carnage on that day. The world knows, or at least I hope they do. We picked footage that specifically talked [about] what one man saw at that moment.

 

POV: The film purposely does not start with a sequence talking about everything that happened on October 6th and prior.

BA: No.

 

POV: And Noam, the film does not discuss your deployment in Lebanon, or other military deployments, with which many people may have issues. Equally, it doesn’t glorify you, or point out the fact that you make a living by helping Arab Israelis get jobs within the tech industry in Israel. 

NT: Correct. 

 

POV: Barry, I believe this may be your strongest film, but I also assume this is the hardest film you’ve ever made because of this very obligation to navigate the pitfalls of leaning too far towards aggrandisement or losing the narrative thread. That said, some of the audience who might expect the film to reinforce their views of what happened that day might be pissed off at you.

BA: I’m okay with that. There’s an old expression that a Broadway producer taught me: “When they’re not buying tickets, there’s no stopping them.” Meaning, if people don’t want to go, they don’t have to go. And if those who go are angry, then what is the purpose of a film, whether it’s a film festival or a film to begin with, but to make an audience feel something? If they’re angry with me, then they’re angry and hopefully [with] the next film, they won’t be angry with me.

 

POV: The charge of propaganda is to suggest a very specific political purpose or to promote a mandate. If the purpose of this film was propaganda, you would not make the film that you made.

BA: I mean, those that are going to say that this film is propaganda did not see it, or maybe don’t have a family of their own.

NT: I really felt that this is what’s so unique from Barry, how he came from outside and focused on the story. I think this is the right way to tell the story, where we start at 6:30am [and go] until the end of the day.

 

POV: It’s a window.

NT: It’s a window, yeah.

 

POV: Sometimes it’s a bullet-shielded window, but it’s a window, not an entire construction giving greater context on the events before, after, and during October 7th.

NT: That’s why the story was told chronologically. In Israel, there’s a lot of fog around everything. The film is not political. It’s a story about a family. And in that way it can touch everyone, everywhere. In Japan, in China, in India, in the States, all over.

 

POV: In Gaza?

NT: Yes, in Gaza. All over. Everyone who sees it has some family. I believe everyone who has kids, or grandkids, will think twice about what they would do in a similar situation. 

I met some parents who lost their kids on the day, who were wishing they had done what I did, but they stayed at home, staring at the TV, or talking on the phone. If there is one lesson that I can say, universally, it’s this: If your family is under risk, take action. Don’t trust anyone else.

 

POV: Is there no part of you that actually reflects back on the fact that not only did you do something wonderful and you helped save your kid, but you were also very, very lucky. Strategically what you did was ridiculous, almost suicidal. As a general you would never have made this decision. As a father, you did. 

NT: But I was a father that day, not a general. As my son pointed out, if I had been killed, it would have been a big military success for Hamas. I say, yes, I took this risk, but it’s always better to take risk for a good value than to sit at home later and ask, “What could I have done?”

BA: I kept asking him this same question. I was probably annoying him every hour. Noam would constantly ask, “When are you going home?” But I kept asking him questions, over and over. We were filming one day, and we could see the gate of the kibbutz. Once he had entered, he was able, after all these hours, to see his son’s house. And yet he didn’t run right away to his son. As we said in the film, he was going to save somebody else. There was a mission, interrupted throughout with other things that interfered with the core task of saving his family. Whether you’re a father or not, most would think immediately of running to the house that you had spent hours trying to reach. I would say to him, “I don’t understand Noam: how, once you’re within 10 feet, 20 feet, how could you delay running to make sure that your family is alive?” I found that incredible. 

He said, “I have a mission, and that’s to make sure that everyone’s safe before I get there.” But what if he went and saved someone else and by the time you got to your son’s house, they’re gone? This was extraordinary to me–that he was so focussed.

 

POV: You were there as a father, but at times you were forced to act as a general.

NT: I was there as a father, but I was working from my training, and from a military point of view. From the minute we entered the kibbutz, I began to lead young soldiers from two incredible units who didn’t know me. I was a stranger to them. 

I was so afraid of friendly fire. That’s why when I walked with a small team of soldiers, it was important for me that we do it in the right way. It’s so complicated in such an environment where there are terrorists all over the place. We could easily kill ourselves with friendly fire. Actually, there were incidents in the Kibbutz where that happened.

 

POV: One of the security guards was shot by his own side.

NT: Yes. So it was very important, once we are there, to do it right. The correct way to do it was not to run to my son’s house, but to go house after house. When we were sure that every house was clear, we would go on to the next one, and don’t leave your rear exposed. 

 

POV: The documentary allows space for whomever the audience is to not lay judgement. Again, there’s lots of reasons why [Hamas] came over the fence from Gaza. You can have those discussions. Your film touches on none of that.

NT: No.

 

POV: But the film leaves space for those at whatever end of the political spectrum to be able to watch this film and see one person’s witnessing of one event. People will judge you, but they’ll at least see what you said from your own eyes.

BA: Well, and that was a decision I made early on before even beginning this project. I can hear my mother, who’s not with us anymore, saying, “Can’t you make a film about Debbie Reynolds or something? Why this?!”

 

POV: You don’t contextualise.

BA: I don’t discuss the conflict.

 

POV: You discuss a mission.

BA: Correct. That greater discussion of the conflict is not what I wanted to do,  and I’m not the right person to do it. And I think that filmmakers are free to make those films on whatever part of the conflict you want to talk about. 

 

POV: So many, be they Jewish or not, will have very specific and strong views about Israel and the region. The argument can be made that all of Israel is not Netanyahu, just as all of Gaza is not Hamas. You spoke of the benefits of Barry’s outside perspective, yet the danger of an outsider is that they can come in and over-simplify the complexity of that region.

NT: This is not a political movie. And this is what’s so great in what Barry did. I would say this: This was a terrible day. It doesn’t matter how you judge it–it was a terrible day. People had been slaughtered, people killed young boys, old people, women, which usually you don’t see. 

Israel is a lot of people. The Arabs are a lot of people. At the end of the day, the movie is my family story. We are so lucky that we have a good ending. The hostages’ families are still waiting, which is unbelievable. I really hope that people will come to the movie without thinking these are the good guys, these are the bad guys. I want them to talk about the story and then they will think about their own family. This is what I want. And at the end of the day, it’s a story about a family.

 

POV: How often do you reflect upon that day? How much did your life change on October 7th?

NT: For everyone in Israel, their life changed on October 7th. If somebody says, “I’m the same person with the same views,” they’re lying. My life changed as well. 

During that day, I didn’t have a minute to think about what was going on. I just acted. I didn’t even take a single photo with my cellphone. I was so focused on what I’m doing and so focused on the mission. 

Could I have imagined before October 7th that I would be here in TIFF representing a movie about my life? I’m too old for this! I [would] choose another career. Yet I think this is what’s so nice in the work that Barry did. When you do a documentary about people, you have to build trust. He created an atmosphere that I felt comfortable with. I could open up and discuss issues, which usually I always keep to myself. 

BA: I think too, Jason, I go back to looking at all of my work and what’s the comp for this and a different time of the world. I did the film about the Nuremberg trial lawyer Ben Ferencz film, 2018’s Prosecuting Evil, which is a much simpler film. That was about this four-foot, eight-inch man who somehow managed to convince the powers that be to have one last Nuremberg trial. In that film, I did not go into World War II and the history of the Nazis. It was specifically about one man’s courage to prosecute the most heinous Nazis ever, the Einsatzgruppen. Again, I’m drawn to specific characters. That’s the best I can do as a filmmaker, to create a portrait of someone like Noam and his wife. 

 

POV: This must have been one of the more challenging films you’ve made editorially. You could have made the easier version of this film and firmly put your stamp on it and said, this is what I think, this is what I do. You let his story be the story.

BA: In my documentaries, and people could be critical of them, and many have, I always let the audience decide. I always have. I’m not Michael Moore. I’d rather let the audience debate something. And guess what? For those that come in with a preconceived notion and walk out with it, then there’s another film to see next Friday. So be it.

 

POV: With this subject you have a responsibility to tell the narrative in a certain way, but you have to have the journalistic integrity to tell the story in a certain way.

BA: I have never done more prep for a film than this. Never.

 

POV: If as Noam says October 7th changed everybody in Israel, then similarly this film changed the way you make movies?

BA: It did. I had the responsibility to make sure that the story was accurate. I did a lot of research on the day, and specifically Noam’s journey. We spent a lot of time talking about every step of the way. We looked at thousands of hours of body cam footage and close circuit cameras. We verified the story Noam told on 60 Minutes was the same story that other newspapers had, and needed to re-verify how accurate his recollection was. 

I looked at everything and then we created a wall of the entire timeline of that day in every detail and in complex index cards. It was a long wall, twelve feet long. I had to have all of that precise detail and articulate it accurately so no one could say, “That didn’t happen this way on that day.”

 

POV: How was that footage assembled? Is it all indexed and archived? Is there one place where you can go to get it?

BA: No, this is the brilliance of a guy named Dave Kennedy. We made the footage available to him from dozens and dozens of news outlets as well as the footage that he had to go through.

 

POV: How is he getting it? Who’s collected all the Facebook footage?

BA: Our visual researchers.

 

POV: But from where?

BA: It’s out there. You can find anything.

 

POV: He’s literally Googling? 

BA: He’s Googling, he’s finding sites that have stuff, stuff [that has] been taken down, stuff that’s been all over the place.

 

POV: There’s no hard drive from the government of Israel with all the footage that’s just being handed to you? 

BA: No, nor a drive from Hamas. I mean, some people think that Hamas has a licensing division I should have been in touch with. It doesn’t exist. [Laughs, sardonically.] I specifically hired an editor who wasn’t Jewish. I wanted someone to have a neutral perspective on this film that wasn’t biased one way or another. In fact, it’s his first feature.

You could argue that I’m a Jewish filmmaker, so I’m going to have a bias. My bias is it’s a fucking family story. That’s the story I want to tell. 

NT: I saw a lot of images, but what they collected for this movie, many of the images were new to me. The way it was connected to my story, matching with what I was talking about, was very interesting.

 

POV: How surreal was it for you to have a memory of something and then see the visuals? Did you have any moments that challenged your memories?

NT: My wife and I talked about this a lot because. From a battle, everyone sees things in a slightly different way. We were in the same vehicle, and because it was such an intensive day, I forgot a lot of things. The images that Barry brought in served to remind me of a lot of things. Some parts I cannot say I remember things exactly. Some of it, yes; some of it, no. 

BA: Filming with Noam over the days that we did, his recollection of detail when one would want to forget things was extraordinarily great. I didn’t want to waste his time. We had a large crew and I wanted to make sure we captured everything. His attention to detail was amazing. 

[Turns to Noam]

One question from me: Your granddaughters will see this film one day. They were under the age of five, that day, both of them. Will you watch this film with them? What do you hope they see and use it or not? 

NT: First of all, I would not push them to watch, because there is maybe trauma hiding in them. It’ll pop up. So they will be mature. I hope that when they will be mature and they will see the movie and they will come, will give me and my wife, Galia, a kiss and say, “We love you.” That’s it. This will be my prize. “We love you, grandpa. Thank you.”

 

POV: How are you feeling as the film is finally about to hold its premiere? 

BA: I’m emotional about it. I’m excited. I am not concerned about the noise outside the theatre, the noise inside the theatre. I am excited about people seeing a film. 

The Road Between Us premieres at TIFF 2025.

Get more coverage from this year’s festival here.

The post Barry Avrich and Noam Tibon on The Road Between Us: “The film is not political. It’s a story about a family.” appeared first on POV Magazine.